Recently the FoF had the pleasure of spending the day with our great friends from the USA Network on the set of one of their hottest shows, Covert Affairs.  We will bring you our time on the set and the interviews with the cast and crew. This week our time with Executive Producer Doug Liman. Covert Affairs is on Tuesday nights on the USA Network at 10/9c.

PANEL: With the current events going on like bin Laden getting killed and all, is that going to factor any type of-, you know, shape the way the second season that Covert Affairs is kind of shaping up or you've pretty much already got that squared away?

DOUG LIMAN: The-, you know, we're-, we'll never go, you know, that deep into the world of terrorism.  You know, it's just not-, those aren't really the stories the show does.  But this year, this season was definitely influenced by the events in Pakistan that actually pre-dated bin Laden.  Like the, the CIA contract officer who gunned down two Pakistanis in Lahore in-, earlier in the year and sort of-, and the, the sort of web of politics that sort of went into-, you know, going into-, after bin Laden eventually that they like-, the couldn't go get bin Laden as long as they had a CIA contract officer in a Pakistani prison because they, they worried that guy would get, you know, killed by the Pakistanis.  So they-, that just the way that like the-, the way the different sort of aspects of government.  Like there's a-, it would be cool to just go in and kill bin Laden, they knew where he was for months, but there's like other aspects and complications.  And, and our stories, you know, work best when we actually set them in worlds where there are complications and the State Department has a competing agenda to the CIA's agenda and Annie gets put in the middle or, or the-, Joan or the other characters get put in the middle.  So in that way, just sort of-, because there was so much press coverage of Pakistan this year, and specifically of how the CIA was operating in Pakistan, it was just more material for us to work with in terms of, of the sort of bureaucratic challenges that these characters face.

PANEL: With the-, with how well that, that Covert Affairs is doing and other USA shows, does that put pressure on, on you to-, with Suits coming up, are there, you know, are there goals that you want to hit or is it just want to just make a good show and it does what it does?

DOUG LIMAN: I mean you can't really set out to make a hit.  You just set out to make something that you really like. And, in fact, some shows that, you know, historically have done-, like the people-, Seinfeld's like one of the most successful shows ever.  They didn't really set out to make a hit, they just liked it.  So-, but that being said, when you see Gabriel and Patrick's sort of on-screen chemistry, it's-, you, you can't help but sort of know that it's a, it's a winner.  You know, and it hasn't-, I haven't-, I've, I've had really good luck in my career of being involved in, in a lot of great on-screen chemistries.  You know, most famously Brad and Angie.  But also, you know, I'm incredibly proud of the, the dynamic between Vince and Jon in Swingers and I feel like Patrick and, and Gabe have that, have that same dynamic in Suits.  And that's what I love about television that it's-, and that it's driven by character.  It's not, it's not driven by special effects.  And even in Covert Affairs, which has a ton of action and we travel the world, it's the most-, the biggest stories are the ones where it's about her sister or, you know, and about lying or about her love life.

PANEL: What do you love the most about Covert Affairs, right now?

DOUG LIMAN: I really am in love with Annie's character.  I'm deeply in love with Chris Gorham's character and just in-, I just think that Auggie is-, like he's completely transcended his, his handicap.  I mean, it's just not even-, he's just this incredible sex symbol and you just want to follow him and he's-, you want to, you want to be with him all the time and you-, and I love sending him out in the field and we're, we're doing that again.  I'm sure, I'm sure other people have probably told you that already.  And he's-, in fact, Chris Gorham's going to Istanbul next week.  I'm hoping to, to be there with him.  And, you know, and the mission he's on in Istanbul would be, would be almost impossible for somebody who was sighted.  And he has to do it blind.  And the episode we're currently shooting, I guess you guys are going to the airport, where Kari is going on to the field for the first time and it's-, you know, I feel like when, when things work, either movies or TV shows, it's because you're-, the exact right characters are on the right journey.  And like you wouldn't want to have Jason Bourne like going to Vegas with a friend trying to pick up girls.  You know, like you, you-, but you-, and you wouldn't want to have Jon Favreau's character from Swingers like being chased by assassins 'cause that wouldn't really bring out what's interesting.  But Matt and Chris have really created a world of, of not just Piper and Chris but the, the whole extended cast and even the, the, the guest stars.  That the, the story lines bring out what's, what's most interesting.  And like seeing Joan who's, you know, Annie's boss, you've only seen behind a desk, out in the fields and, and remembering that she actually once, too, was a field operative suddenly makes Joan's character so much more compelling.  And I feel like we keep finding new ways to find-, to explore these characters and they just-, they get better and better.  Like we're-, we, we have so much road ahead of us.

PANEL: Has there been like a particular nugget to each character that you've been totally surprised by as the series has been developing?

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah, I think I've been pleasantly surprised by how great a sense of humour our entire cast have.  That was always something that was really important for me for the series.  That it, it-, like the characters bring a sense of humour to it.  Not the-, you know, not, not that we create humorous situations but the characters, themselves, bring the humour.  'Cause I come from the kind of environment where, my family, we always, you know, brought humour to situations no matter how dire.  You know, there were probably never more, more laughter or jokes than at a funeral, in my family, and so it's-, I really respond to that on a personal level.  And, and then, you know, Piper's hysterical, Chris is hysterical.  Kari, in the episode that just aired, in Paris, when she's on jury duty is-, like I just keep being, you know, thrilled that I'm like, oh, there's this whole other side that we haven't even explored for this character.  And everybody, you know, has so much range.

PANEL: Is the relationship between Annie and Ben something that is going to go long term or is there going to be some sort of resolution soonish?

DOUG LIMAN: You know, the-, you know, we're, we're-, we haven't written the entire season so-, and the thing about TV is you can have-, you can make up your mind and then you can change your mind.  And it's, it's one of the things I love about it 'cause you-, it's sort of an ongoing, organic process.  Like 'cause you, you actually-, you're writing and shooting and airing episodes while you're still writing future episodes.  So, you know, my personal feeling about it is that as Annie matures and, and, and grows up a little bit more, she will recognize that Ben is a, is a, is a dead-end street and that there is a-, that the attraction to a guy like Ben is something that, you know, seems great at the beginning and, at a certain point, you, you grow up and you-, he's-, he-, he's not-, he's, he's at the beginning of an arc not at the end of the arc.  So that's, that's, you know, my attitude and, and Matt and Chris' attitude going in.  But again, it's-, doesn't that-, for Annie to get to that place could, could take 10 years or it could happen this year.  And we're, you know, we're, we're tracking it.

PANEL: And as far as sweeps goes like what types of stories can, can we expect to see as the season progresses?

DOUG LIMAN: What I love about the Suits is that the, the kinds of cases that get brought into this law firm are very specific to the fact that it's a super high-end law firm, New York law firm.  And so that they are-, and that more than a legal show, Suits, for me, is about plucking this kid who is really, you know, existing on, on the fringes of society and, and giving him a suit and a very high paying job and a beautiful office and all the trappings of, you know, of really having made it in New York City, sort of the toughest city in the world to make it in.  And it's-, so it's-, that, to me, is like-, that, that is the, the heart and soul of, of the show more than, oh, what's it like to-, what-, how, how's he going to solve these cases.  I'm also really-, it's my sort of-, you know, I'm-, just like the episodes, you know, and the season may evolve.  Like I feel like as a filmmaker, I, I'm evolving and like I'm in a particular phase, now, of, of life where like I'm really about like intelligence being a super power.  And, obviously, it's something that I explored in Bourne Identity but Matt Damon also could kick ass.  But both with Suits where Patrick Adams-, his super power is he's just the smartest guy in the room.  And the film I'm currently prepping, the protagonists' super powers, that they're just incredibly smart.  They're literally rocket scientists.  And so it's-, there's a definite connection between-, same way that like Covert Affairs connects back to Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it connects back to Bourne Identity, it connects to Fair Game, Suits is sort of part of like the sort of, maybe, my new chapter in my life of, of really being fascinated by the people who are like the smartest people in the room.  And so the stories-, not, not belittling the stories, but they are-, you have-, they're not-, we're not really going to ever go to like courtroom drama 'cause that's not sort of  not what the show is.  But because you're plucking this Patrick Adams out of like, you know, really fringe of society and planting him in this rarefied world of, you know, the high floor of a skyscraper in mid-town Manhattan, we're also on the cases sending him out into the rarefied world that he previously hadn't been exposed to.  So the Hamptons and the boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies and so that, that sort of rags-to-riches will permeate, you know, many of the stories.  Not all of them 'cause there are, occasionally, there's the pro bono case.  But…

PANEL: It sounds like Alice in Wonderland.  Was that a theme that you were kind of going for in Suits?

DOUG LIMAN: It is, very much so.  And it is like when's the, you know, clock going to strike 12:00.  And when, you know, when does it, when does the prom end or when does he turn into a pumpkin?  Like that, that is hanging over him the whole time because, in fact, he didn't go to law school and he didn't finish college and he-, you know, it's-, it-, he's having this amazing-, you know, to be, you know, young in New York, young, good looking in New York and, you know, making a, you know, $180,000 a year, it's pretty much hitting the jackpot.  But since it's not legitimately earned, 'cause he didn't go to law school, he doesn't have a degree in-, it's-, you know, that's-, there's a threat that that will be taken away every second.  And the cases are part of that world.

PANEL: For Suits, you know, the sort of electricity between Gabe's character and Patrick's character really jumps off the page.  Did you know right away that they would work that well together?

DOUG LIMAN: You know, it doesn't always happen on day one.  Like it wasn't-, and that's one of the things where we just became more and more surprised by how great the chemistry was.  Like I would say it was good at the beginning and just got better and better and better.  And by the way, continues to get better.  Like, you know, it's-, you're not supposed to say it but like episode two, in my opinion, is better than the pilot.  And then we just saw episode three and we're like, oh, my God, that's better than episode two.  And it's-, their chemistry's just getting better and better and better.  And I don't know where the-, it's already extraordinary.  I mean, have you guys seen…

PANEL: Mm-hmm.  Yeah.

DOUG LIMAN: What did they-, just the pilot?  Did they show you what it…

PANEL: Just the pilot.  Mm-hmm.  Yeah.

DOUG LIMAN: They didn't show you the second or third episodes yet?  No?

PANEL: No, no.

PANEL: Did you do a lot of readings with them or did you just know?  You know, like a lot of people read for the roles or did you just see them and you're like, no, this is it.

DOUG LIMAN: No you can't-, you-, I haven't been able to do those chemistry reads really since I did Go.  Since then, it's been really like-, you know, like maybe you get them together once but you don't-, the, the real work to see-, you know, so, at the end of the day, it is-, there is a roll of the dice associated.  You know, Mr. & Mrs. Smith was a massive roll of the dice.  I never-, you know, because of Brad and Angie's schedule, I literally never even got them into the same room until the first day of the shoot.

PANEL: (Laughter.)  It's got to be kind of exciting when you kind of discover gold like that.  When you find that magic chemistry after you actually cast the star of the show.  Particularly, something like Suits.  I mean, I've…

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah.

PANEL: As a viewer, and as a reviewer, I watched that episode and I was startled by the instant chemistry.  You're just like, dang, that does leap off the page a little bit and it comes across on the screen really well.  And it kind of was intoxicating to the point where…

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah.

PANEL: …we're kind of all dated and we kinda go, damn, it's like a drug, what happened?  (Laughter.)

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah, no, they're, they're just incredible together.  But you can't-, there is no, there's no trick and it doesn't always happen.  I mean, I-, you know, and I'm-, it's-, it hasn't happened in every one of my movies.  It hasn't happened in every one of my TV shows.  There's not like-, you know, it's you, you do the best job you can but then-, I mean, for their chemistry that's really hitting now, like, you know, it's months of working together.  So there's no way to-, I mean, back when I was doing independent films like Swingers, you know, Jon Favreau and Vince Vaughn and I were all out of work so, I mean, we were able to hang out for-, you know, it took years to put that film together and so-, but and then Go, I tried to recreate that experience by spending four months casting the film and, and bringing people in and reading them opposite each other and really doing that.  And then since then, I, I've been sort of forced to sort of make educated guesses.

PANEL: Smart guesses.  It seems to be a good formula.  (Laughter.)

PANEL: You have the rags to riches story in that focus but how do you counter that with Gabriel's character.  Like what keeps him evolving and, and interesting while you've got Patrick, you know…

DOUG LIMAN: I mean, that was the key thing about casting Gabriel was that, you know, Harvey Specter is such a-, you know, he's got such confidence and, and, you know, arrogance and yet, you still have to love him.  And there's certain actors you can cast who you don't have to sort of tone down say, you know, what might other-, might be a negative quality played by a different actor, such as arrogance.  There's certain actors who you can embrace it and you'll actually love them for that arrogance.  And that was the critical thing for casting that role.  And it was like-, I mean, so there's no luck involved with casting Gabriel.  It was like we need-, he-, you know, he's such a brilliant actor and he had already had demonstrated that and it's-, and he comes into the room and you see he can pull that off.  It's different than finding the chemistry.  That's about will you still love him no matter how arrogant the thing he just did is?  And it's-, you know, that's-, like say when I was casting Bourne Identity, I didn't want a soft-, I wanted-, I didn't want to tone down Jason Bourne's back story.  Even though, played by the wrong actor, you would be forced to tone it down because people just wouldn't root for the guy.  'Cause, okay, he just did a horrible-, he did a bunch of bad things in his past.  That's all you know about him.  Like played by the wrong person, you'd be like, oh, I just-, why am I even rooting for this guy and, suddenly, you'd be forced to sort of have him save a puppy dog.  Right, 'cause you-, but, you know, because Matt Damon just feels so inherently good, that just comes through, you can sort of throw the darkest past at him and, and it still works.  You know?  And the same way with Gabriel Macht.  Like he-, you just root for him and love him.  And no matter how arrogant we go, you still love him.  And so I'm like there's a-, you know, I'm really excited about figuring out how, how we can explore that and, and where the boundaries of that are.  'Cause, obviously, there's a line that you cross where you actually wouldn't root for him anymore and, you know, we want to, we want to dance around that.  And it is-, we are a character-driven show and he's-, we're, we're starting already at a really interesting place with him.

PANEL: I recall last year, you mentioning that kind of part of the whole thing with Covert Affairs was putting a human face on CIA agents.

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah.

PANEL: What type of feedback and response did you receive on that aspect?  'Cause I thought that came across really well in the first season.  What feedback did you get back on that after the first season?

DOUG LIMAN: From the CIA or from…

PANEL: From the CIA and viewers, in general.  Like taking that different kind of look at a CIA agent rather than it just being completely mission, mission, mission.

DOUG LIMAN: I mean, we got-, obviously, we-, we're extremely highly rated and, you know, it's-, you know, so I, I came away from the first season feeling like that was a good call and let's do it better second season.  So there wasn't a like, oh, maybe that was-, you know, let's re-evaluate some of the choices we made.  It's like, no, that choice is working.  And, and not only working, it's-, you know, for me, more than the, the viewers sort of is just sitting down and watching it.  You know, and just with friends or whatever watching an episode and just sort of feeling which ones work and which ones don't work.  And, you know, Sean Ryerson, who's one of our, our producers, and I were just upstairs and talking about some upcoming episodes of Covert Affairs and just thinking about, about this season and which ones-, which episodes we think are working better than others.  And like what are we learning about the show and it's, you know, the one thing that, you know, can even just-, you know, a few minutes ago upstairs, we're like consistently, it's like the episodes where the character stories are big, are our best episodes.  You know, and they're in-, I know that's just my opinion that they're our best episodes and-, but it's-, so it's-, since that was the concept from the beginning and it's sort of been the-, now, we now see the evidence of it.  That-, you know, and it's when the Paris episode is, you know, is a great episode not because we went to Paris and filmed Piper in Paris.  It's a great episode because there's a, a great love story in Paris with a Mossad agent.  And, you know, her wrestling with do you, don't you, tell the people around you what you do for a living.  And it's-, the character story's a big story in that.

PANEL: I was just wondering how much research went into making-, creating a blind character.  Like did you go visit schools or…

DOUG LIMAN: A ton.  But in, in-, you know, you guys, hopefully, are going to talk to, to, to Chris.  And what he has done to-, for this character in terms of the, the work he put in, is extraordinary.  And he's, he's, basically, on a first-name basis with a number of people at the, the-, I can't even-, like he'll rattle off all, you know, these-, the names of these places but there's a, a, a, a, you know, Toronto Canadian centre for the blind that he has spent a lot of time at and a lot of time with the people.  And he, he has these relationships so that-, and it's, it's not just the research that went into creating the character at the beginning but it's the just on-going research because-, and so he has really become the guardian of that character.  And he takes it so seriously that we, we trust him with that.  And it's generally my philosophy to sort of treat the actors as the guardians of their characters because the rest of us are caught up in so many other facets of details of the show that you-, you know, having-, entrusting the, the actors to, to really be the guardians of their character and that they-, empowering them to do that and, and is, is not only makes the day actually possible, makes a-, makes life possible, because otherwise, there'd be too many details to worry about, but it actually makes for better content. And, you know, so Chris will-, you know, we'll write an episode where he's at home and he'll-, Chris will reach out to his contacts in the blind community here in Toronto and go over to their houses and study, you know, how does a-, somebody who's blind pour a cup of coffee.  Right?  'Cause how, how can they possibly know when the liquid's up towards the top?  And different than pouring like a cup of water 'cause you can put your finger in there but you don't want to put your finger in boiling-, I mean, things that the rest of us just take for granted.  And he is always-, you can count on him.  Every time he gets the script and he looks at what's being asked of him, you know, the next thing he's doing is he's on the phone or getting in his car and driving over and working with somebody who's actually blind to understand how a blind person would actually do that particular thing.

PANEL: What made you decide to go in that direction and actually write a character that was blind?

DOUG LIMAN: I think, we all shared a, a really deep love for the Robert Redford film, whose name I'm totally blanking me right this second, Sneakers.  So you just like-, we all-, you know, it's like the producers, the writers, like we're all sort of of a certain age and it's like we just grew up with Sneakers being one of those just-, for-, especially, maybe, for guys of a certain age, you just-, it's just there's no way it's just not one of your favourite films ever.  And there was a very memorable blind character in that.  And…

PANEL: Could you talk a little bit about the casting of Gina Torres in the role for Suits?  'Cause that's an unusual choice but she's amazing in the role.

DOUG LIMAN: Why do you think it's unusual, her?

PANEL: She gets usually kind of type-cast as like the rich wife kind of role or, in the case of Firefly, perhaps a-, like a, a warrior type.  But to see her in a Suit capacity where she's the business person is a little different, I think.

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah, you know, it's-, I mean, I'm sort of known for casting against type, anyhow.  And certainly, you know, we're here in Canada casting Sarah Polley in Go when she had done the Sweet Hereafter, was-, doesn't really get any more against type except maybe casting Matt Damon as Jason Bourne when he had done nothing but sort of cerebral roles.  But it's-, so I definitely try to not be limited by what someone's done before.  And, in fact, if possible, go the other way and say like, okay, they've done that so I don't want to, I don't want to see them do that, again.  And so that-, it's-, it really is completely a meritocracy.  And it's not even what you've done before and that's, that's one of things I also love about television that you-, you know, film it's so much about who's on this list and who's on the short list and it's, you know, people come in to audition for my next film and I'm like, all right, you're, you're really great but like they're never going to let me cast you.  Like that will never happen in television.  It will just be you're really great, cast them.  And that happens all the time in film and it just doesn't happen in television.  It's like who's actually really great for that part.

PANEL: Did you have like a gut instinct with Gina when she was actually reading for the role or something?

DOUG LIMAN: Yeah.  It just, you know, it just clicks.  And if it doesn't click, you keep at it till you find someone where it does click.  'Cause it's-, casting's everything in it.  I mean, casting's everything in film, almost.  But if you can throw enough special effects at it, you could-, you can get past it.  But for the kinds of movies I like making and the kind of television shows I like making and, basically, for all television, like it's all casting.  Like if you don't get the casting right, you're-, it doesn't matter how clever you are with the writing or with the directing, you're never going to make it work. 

Be sure to tune into the Covert Affairs airs on the USA Channel on Tuesday nights at 10/9c and into Suits on Thursday nights at 10/9c. Special thanks to Doug Liman and everyone at the USA Network for making time. More information can be found below:

http://www.usanetwork.com/series/covertaffairs/

http://www.usanetwork.com/series/suits/